> Divorce happens, and there shouldn’t be a stigma around it.
I'm not sure I agree.
If you are in a horrible marriage and/or you hate each other, then of course you should divorce. But short of that, I think the expectation should be that you stay together and make an effort.
FWIW (and I will get some stick for this, I expect), close to none of my friends have been divorced. When I was a kid in the 70s/80s, it seemed like every adult I knew had been divorced.
I don't think that divorced women should be treated like dogs or that anyone should have to wear a Scarlet D on their chest, but I don't think it should be treated as nothing either.
I think if you have the assumption that getting divorced is a bad thing, you will try harder to struggle through difficult times. Mrs Clown and I have had a few episodes like that where it would have been easy to give up. I am glad we didn't. I hope Michelle and Barack don't.
Y'know, my parents got divorced and they probably didn't have to. They never stopped loving each other, they were just unhappy with their lives and couldn't figure out how to change them together. But who knows how things would've turned out differently if they hadn't divorced, really. I don't hold anything against them; it's probably not even the worst thing they did by me. And I still think they're both wonderful people.
We have this idea that is pretty much unquestioned in today's society that you have to "put your own happiness first," and while there is a lot of truth to that - particularly in a "you have to put your oxygen mask on before you put your kid's on" kind of way - it actually IS often virtuous to allow your own happiness to be diminished a little bit, or even a good bit, if it keeps somebody else's (like your kid's, or highly dependent partner's) from being diminished a lot.
An aside: divorced parents shouldn't kid themselves; every kid hates the shit out of joint custody. People are supposed to - NEED to - live in one place. Your kids aren't touring comedians comfortable living out of a suitcase. One of you is gonna have to fuckin' suck it up and take the every other weekend deal. (Or, if you both hate your kids, fuckin' suck it up and take full custody.)
All in all divorce shouldn't have a stigma. But we can take a position that it's kind of bad. Plenty of things that are bad (like, I dunno, drinking, or speeding) don't have a stigma and that's usually for the best.
My parents divorced too, and they hated each other so much that they couldn't even be in the same room until twenty years later, for a grandchild-related event. But I wonder… if they had tried a little harder, they might not have ended up getting divorced, and all that hate would have been unnecessary.
PS. I think drinking* and speeding deserve a stigma.
* If it is causing problems that can only be fixed by stopping.
Agreed. Saying something should be allowed isn't the same thing as saying it should be completely normalized. A marriage falling apart is a bad thing. There may be situations where it is the least bad thing of the options available, but it's still a bad thing. Folks who have gone through divorce (and through marriages that ended in divorce - maybe even more so in some cases) have gone through something that wounds them. A world in which it has zero stigma is also a world in which society doesn't recognize the pain those folks have gone through.
While I overall agree with your point, the divorce is what let's people out of a failing/failed marriage. It's the parachute out of a plane. The stigma should be reserved for bailing too soon and/or letting the plane crash, not in escaping.
I'm with you on this. I see lots of couples just give up when things get hard, or still be looking for greener grass rather than be grateful for that they have. And there should be a stigma against that
Totally agree about the Scarlet D. I mean, it might go with a few outfits, but scarlet is a pretty strong color that clashes with most things. You should get to wear whatever color D you want.
I thought Al and Tipper Gore had the people-you-didn’t-expect-to-do-it-making-the-world-safe-for-divorce gig sewn up when they split in 2010 after forty years of marriage, but then most people had probably forgotten who Al and Tipper Gore were by then.
But seriously, with all the internet ugliness surrounding the former first couple (“Mike Obama,” anyone?), I think their divorce would be a particularly ugly media shit show.
Chief among the irreconcilable differences cited in divorce proceedings was Al's "insistence on blasting 2Live Crew's 'As Nasty As They Wanna Be' on the car stereo "at seemingly every opportunity."
You switched dogs and cattle. On average people are pretty nice to dogs. Cattle are stuffed in mudpens and fed food they can't digest properly so they need constant antibiotics, and then murdered at a young age. Even a dairy cow, forcibly impregnated every year but your babies are taken away from you. Though you can probably hear them crying for you while they're fed mixed milk from you and your milk slave sisters through a fake nipple. While you're hooked up to a milking machine because your boobs fill to painful multiple times a day. And then your sons are taken away to be murdered while your daughters are doomed to follow your fate. You'd definitely rather be treated like a dog than like a cow.
Should we infer anything that the two of them are sitting next a large selection of wine? Is this a hint that it takes a lot of booze for them to be in the same room together? Maybe you can get Alex Jones to look into it.
I will say that photo looks like a mid sequence shot from 'Citizen Kane' when it was showing the rise and fall of Kane's marriage to Emily Norton. (As I recall, it begins with the pair sitting over a small table and ends with them on the far side of 20 foot long dinner table.)
Jeff, you probably have heard the story of John Milton's first marriage, but if you haven't, the famous Puritan author of the epic poem "Paradise Lost" married Mary Powell in 1642. The couple turned out to be completely incompatible, and the marriage fell apart after only three months. He then wrote an infamous (at the time) essay in 1643 titled "The Doctrine and Discipline of Divorce" in which he argued that some marriages were just never meant to be and should be nullified. Considering the time and place—he was an English Puritan publishing at the exact time that the events of Hawthorne's "The Scarlet Letter" were supposed to be taking place in the Massachusetts Bay Colony—it was quite a scandal. The calls to have Milton's writing banned were an inspiration for his later landmark defense of free speech in 1644, "Areopagitica."
This was both hilarious and surprisingly heartfelt. I love how you took something the internet would normally turn into cheap gossip and used it to make a real point about stigma, expectations, and how life actually works. Marriage isn't magic — it’s messy, fragile, human. And divorce, while painful, is sometimes just part of the story, not a failure. Thanks for tackling a tricky topic without the usual moral panic or fake optimism. Great piece.
My parents got divorced when I was about 14. I am glad they did, they were unhappy and that made me and my siblings unhappy. They are in much better relationships now and are friendly to each other. I don’t blame either of them, we’re all just figuring out this life as we go along.
I was like "OMG I agree" but it was because I wanted the messy celebrity gossip drama. There were people saying he was having an affair with Jennifer Aniston! But I guess I'm glad you've found peace after your own divorce or w/e, too.
I don’t wish divorce on anyone. That said, Michelle sure does like to shit talk Barack on her podcast. Any respect I had for her is gone. Which is a shame because I always saw them as a very presidential couple.
> Divorce happens, and there shouldn’t be a stigma around it.
I'm not sure I agree.
If you are in a horrible marriage and/or you hate each other, then of course you should divorce. But short of that, I think the expectation should be that you stay together and make an effort.
FWIW (and I will get some stick for this, I expect), close to none of my friends have been divorced. When I was a kid in the 70s/80s, it seemed like every adult I knew had been divorced.
I don't think that divorced women should be treated like dogs or that anyone should have to wear a Scarlet D on their chest, but I don't think it should be treated as nothing either.
I think if you have the assumption that getting divorced is a bad thing, you will try harder to struggle through difficult times. Mrs Clown and I have had a few episodes like that where it would have been easy to give up. I am glad we didn't. I hope Michelle and Barack don't.
Till death us do part.
Y'know, my parents got divorced and they probably didn't have to. They never stopped loving each other, they were just unhappy with their lives and couldn't figure out how to change them together. But who knows how things would've turned out differently if they hadn't divorced, really. I don't hold anything against them; it's probably not even the worst thing they did by me. And I still think they're both wonderful people.
We have this idea that is pretty much unquestioned in today's society that you have to "put your own happiness first," and while there is a lot of truth to that - particularly in a "you have to put your oxygen mask on before you put your kid's on" kind of way - it actually IS often virtuous to allow your own happiness to be diminished a little bit, or even a good bit, if it keeps somebody else's (like your kid's, or highly dependent partner's) from being diminished a lot.
An aside: divorced parents shouldn't kid themselves; every kid hates the shit out of joint custody. People are supposed to - NEED to - live in one place. Your kids aren't touring comedians comfortable living out of a suitcase. One of you is gonna have to fuckin' suck it up and take the every other weekend deal. (Or, if you both hate your kids, fuckin' suck it up and take full custody.)
All in all divorce shouldn't have a stigma. But we can take a position that it's kind of bad. Plenty of things that are bad (like, I dunno, drinking, or speeding) don't have a stigma and that's usually for the best.
My parents divorced too, and they hated each other so much that they couldn't even be in the same room until twenty years later, for a grandchild-related event. But I wonder… if they had tried a little harder, they might not have ended up getting divorced, and all that hate would have been unnecessary.
PS. I think drinking* and speeding deserve a stigma.
* If it is causing problems that can only be fixed by stopping.
Agreed. Saying something should be allowed isn't the same thing as saying it should be completely normalized. A marriage falling apart is a bad thing. There may be situations where it is the least bad thing of the options available, but it's still a bad thing. Folks who have gone through divorce (and through marriages that ended in divorce - maybe even more so in some cases) have gone through something that wounds them. A world in which it has zero stigma is also a world in which society doesn't recognize the pain those folks have gone through.
While I overall agree with your point, the divorce is what let's people out of a failing/failed marriage. It's the parachute out of a plane. The stigma should be reserved for bailing too soon and/or letting the plane crash, not in escaping.
precisely -- and right now, it most certainly is not reserved for those people.
That's a good way of putting it.
I'm with you on this. I see lots of couples just give up when things get hard, or still be looking for greener grass rather than be grateful for that they have. And there should be a stigma against that
Totally agree about the Scarlet D. I mean, it might go with a few outfits, but scarlet is a pretty strong color that clashes with most things. You should get to wear whatever color D you want.
EDIT: misfired a standalone post as a reply.
So long as we still have genuine, loving married role models like Bill & Hillary...
So ChatGPT declined to make you a picture of Michelle giving Barack a lap dance?
Yeah it’s a real prude sometimes.
Ask Grok
I don’t understand why anyone cares about whether the Obamas might divorce when the current president has been divorced three times
I thought Al and Tipper Gore had the people-you-didn’t-expect-to-do-it-making-the-world-safe-for-divorce gig sewn up when they split in 2010 after forty years of marriage, but then most people had probably forgotten who Al and Tipper Gore were by then.
But seriously, with all the internet ugliness surrounding the former first couple (“Mike Obama,” anyone?), I think their divorce would be a particularly ugly media shit show.
Chief among the irreconcilable differences cited in divorce proceedings was Al's "insistence on blasting 2Live Crew's 'As Nasty As They Wanna Be' on the car stereo "at seemingly every opportunity."
Ooh, now I can’t wait to see what Candace Owens thinks about all this.
You switched dogs and cattle. On average people are pretty nice to dogs. Cattle are stuffed in mudpens and fed food they can't digest properly so they need constant antibiotics, and then murdered at a young age. Even a dairy cow, forcibly impregnated every year but your babies are taken away from you. Though you can probably hear them crying for you while they're fed mixed milk from you and your milk slave sisters through a fake nipple. While you're hooked up to a milking machine because your boobs fill to painful multiple times a day. And then your sons are taken away to be murdered while your daughters are doomed to follow your fate. You'd definitely rather be treated like a dog than like a cow.
Should we infer anything that the two of them are sitting next a large selection of wine? Is this a hint that it takes a lot of booze for them to be in the same room together? Maybe you can get Alex Jones to look into it.
I will say that photo looks like a mid sequence shot from 'Citizen Kane' when it was showing the rise and fall of Kane's marriage to Emily Norton. (As I recall, it begins with the pair sitting over a small table and ends with them on the far side of 20 foot long dinner table.)
OBAMA-BIDEN 2028. By which I mean Michelle/Hunter. Why not?
Jeff, you probably have heard the story of John Milton's first marriage, but if you haven't, the famous Puritan author of the epic poem "Paradise Lost" married Mary Powell in 1642. The couple turned out to be completely incompatible, and the marriage fell apart after only three months. He then wrote an infamous (at the time) essay in 1643 titled "The Doctrine and Discipline of Divorce" in which he argued that some marriages were just never meant to be and should be nullified. Considering the time and place—he was an English Puritan publishing at the exact time that the events of Hawthorne's "The Scarlet Letter" were supposed to be taking place in the Massachusetts Bay Colony—it was quite a scandal. The calls to have Milton's writing banned were an inspiration for his later landmark defense of free speech in 1644, "Areopagitica."
This was both hilarious and surprisingly heartfelt. I love how you took something the internet would normally turn into cheap gossip and used it to make a real point about stigma, expectations, and how life actually works. Marriage isn't magic — it’s messy, fragile, human. And divorce, while painful, is sometimes just part of the story, not a failure. Thanks for tackling a tricky topic without the usual moral panic or fake optimism. Great piece.
My parents got divorced when I was about 14. I am glad they did, they were unhappy and that made me and my siblings unhappy. They are in much better relationships now and are friendly to each other. I don’t blame either of them, we’re all just figuring out this life as we go along.
You might be wrong
what did I just read??
I was like "OMG I agree" but it was because I wanted the messy celebrity gossip drama. There were people saying he was having an affair with Jennifer Aniston! But I guess I'm glad you've found peace after your own divorce or w/e, too.
I don’t wish divorce on anyone. That said, Michelle sure does like to shit talk Barack on her podcast. Any respect I had for her is gone. Which is a shame because I always saw them as a very presidential couple.