Also, I have to point out that the moral of the bread-stealing incident is not "bread-stealing is always perfectly morally justified," but that "grace can forgive wrongdoing!" After the Bishop saves Jean Valjean from going back to jail, he tells him, "Jean Valjean, my brother: you belong no longer to evil but to good"--not "Hey man, good work with that stealing stuff. Right on!"
It sometimes seems that modern progressive-left approaches to crime and social order are based entirely on the belief that everyone who breaks the law is specifically Jean Valjean as played by Hugh Jackman. Not the one in the book, not even the one in the film, but the one they saw in a GIF meme on a self-righteous post on Tumblr back in 2013 or whenever.
On the bright side, France after the revolution of 1830 was where you could buy all the daguerreotypes of sexy grisettes with bared ankles that would fit in your steamer trunk for the trip home to Dysenteryville-on-Avon.
I wish there was some way to get this 100% truly authored essay in front of the Seattle City council, King County council, and the entire WA state legislature. I have sat through so many neighborhood outreach/BIA type meetings where zero elected officials understood the fentynal addicts forcing CVS to put toothpaste under extra lock and key are not the direct spiritual descendants of Jean Valjean. I've said that to them, but I'm just a nut who cares about leaving things nicer for everyone else.
Did it ever occur to you that people tearing copper wire out of the walls or sawing off catalytic converters might be doing it to FEED THEIR FAMILIES?!?
I think they're mostly feeding their untreated addictions.
Minimum wage is Seattle (no skills, fresh out of high school or whatever, Subway, Taco Bell, McDonalds) is $20.76, plus benefits (legislated). But you may believe if you wish that they are their version of Jean Valjean, and people like me are Janvert. (sorry if I have the reference wrong). Be well -
(Sorry -- my point is that stealing bread that you then feed to a child bears little resemblance to most of the theft I see in the non-fictional city I inhabit. In short I'm agreeing with you.)
Hot take: Les Miserables and Victor Hugo are overrated because of people who've only seen Les Mis or read the abridged editions of the book.
When you read the whole thing, you find out that A. Hugo had a giant man-crush on Napoleon Bonaparte and B. He was very much in the "can't make an omelet without breaking eggs" crowd, fully endorsing the Revolution's crushing of the Vendee and Chouan revolts (during which the government in Paris killed somewhere between 300-400,000 peasants), on the grounds that they were merely acting out of parochial interests (read: they were staunch Catholics) rather than for the good of France. And don't even get me started on his whining in the forty pages he spends on the Battle of Waterloo about how it just isn't fair that the stolid, boring British beat the gallant, noble, and dashing French.
While Jean ValJean is mentioned, he is not central to how Piker or the other one justify petty theft.
In their mind, shoplifting avocados is acceptable because Whole Foods have already "stolen" them by swindling the people who picked them, transported them and put them on the shelves. A better fictional comparison would be someone like Aladdin(who they mentioned), Bilbo Baggins (who stole a ring from someone who had obtained it immorally) or Ali Baba (who stole from thieves).
Their nihilistic argument is that "theft" is a meaningless term when ownership is illegitimate. They would still consider it immoral to take something they believe legitimately belongs to someone else (such as food in a city-run grocery store) but don't recognize the legitimatcy of most ownership. Would you consider it immoral to steal from Tony Soprano?
They go a little farther and argue that stealing from an illegitimate owner is even a moral good as it is a way to communicate the illegitimate nature of their ownership. Similar to how Robin Hood stole from an illegitimate government(as John was a usurper) or Gandhi did not follow the British law when collecting salt.
I don't really find their argument convincing (for reasons that are probably uncontroversial here) but it's a little different than how many people are interpreting it.
So they would also find it a moral good for someone to steal from them? If so, I applaud their consistency, but any moral good that results strictly in societal bad has to be looked upon with skepticism.
Interestingly, Vidocq also appears in 'The Black Tower' by Louis Bayard (the guy who wrote 'Pale Blue Eye' which became a movie starring Christian Bale) which is set during the Bourbon Restoration (After the Fall of Napoleon but before Les Mis) .
“One day more, another day another destiny!” I loudly sing as I shovel toiletries into a garbage bag and flip off the CVS worker
Also, I have to point out that the moral of the bread-stealing incident is not "bread-stealing is always perfectly morally justified," but that "grace can forgive wrongdoing!" After the Bishop saves Jean Valjean from going back to jail, he tells him, "Jean Valjean, my brother: you belong no longer to evil but to good"--not "Hey man, good work with that stealing stuff. Right on!"
What if you engage in a monomaniacal quest for revenge against a giant leg-biting whale as a form of radical praxis?
You'll get cancelled by PETA
"Rationalizing theft because of my tale is like rationalizing animal abuse because Fred Flintstone used a bird as a record player."
Thank you!
The bird always looked pretty happy.
It’s a living!
Ok in fairness, he only used the bird's beak as the *needle* on a record player.
It sometimes seems that modern progressive-left approaches to crime and social order are based entirely on the belief that everyone who breaks the law is specifically Jean Valjean as played by Hugh Jackman. Not the one in the book, not even the one in the film, but the one they saw in a GIF meme on a self-righteous post on Tumblr back in 2013 or whenever.
Can you blame them? Hugh Jackman's been stealing hearts since his Australian musical theater days...
Heart theft is no joke.
"You wouldn't download a heart."
His singing I could take or leave
If the choice is between Hugh Jackman's singing and Russell Crowe's, I will take Jackman's in an instant.
On the bright side, France after the revolution of 1830 was where you could buy all the daguerreotypes of sexy grisettes with bared ankles that would fit in your steamer trunk for the trip home to Dysenteryville-on-Avon.
I guess there are *some* ways that their world is like ours.
I wish there was some way to get this 100% truly authored essay in front of the Seattle City council, King County council, and the entire WA state legislature. I have sat through so many neighborhood outreach/BIA type meetings where zero elected officials understood the fentynal addicts forcing CVS to put toothpaste under extra lock and key are not the direct spiritual descendants of Jean Valjean. I've said that to them, but I'm just a nut who cares about leaving things nicer for everyone else.
Did it ever occur to you that people tearing copper wire out of the walls or sawing off catalytic converters might be doing it to FEED THEIR FAMILIES?!?
I think they're mostly feeding their untreated addictions.
Minimum wage is Seattle (no skills, fresh out of high school or whatever, Subway, Taco Bell, McDonalds) is $20.76, plus benefits (legislated). But you may believe if you wish that they are their version of Jean Valjean, and people like me are Janvert. (sorry if I have the reference wrong). Be well -
"Hey kids, good news! We eat tonight -- catalytic converters for everyone!"
(Sorry -- my point is that stealing bread that you then feed to a child bears little resemblance to most of the theft I see in the non-fictional city I inhabit. In short I'm agreeing with you.)
Hot take: Les Miserables and Victor Hugo are overrated because of people who've only seen Les Mis or read the abridged editions of the book.
When you read the whole thing, you find out that A. Hugo had a giant man-crush on Napoleon Bonaparte and B. He was very much in the "can't make an omelet without breaking eggs" crowd, fully endorsing the Revolution's crushing of the Vendee and Chouan revolts (during which the government in Paris killed somewhere between 300-400,000 peasants), on the grounds that they were merely acting out of parochial interests (read: they were staunch Catholics) rather than for the good of France. And don't even get me started on his whining in the forty pages he spends on the Battle of Waterloo about how it just isn't fair that the stolid, boring British beat the gallant, noble, and dashing French.
That is some range of peasants, from 300 to 400,000. Gotta be in there somewhere.
I have a hard time Jean Valjean actually wrote this since he's aware of the Flintstones' record player. "Eh, it's a living..."
Les Insufférables.
Tous les gendarmes sont des bâtards!
Who is this girl
What sort of devil is she
To have her lemons of sin
And talk about it so free
While Jean ValJean is mentioned, he is not central to how Piker or the other one justify petty theft.
In their mind, shoplifting avocados is acceptable because Whole Foods have already "stolen" them by swindling the people who picked them, transported them and put them on the shelves. A better fictional comparison would be someone like Aladdin(who they mentioned), Bilbo Baggins (who stole a ring from someone who had obtained it immorally) or Ali Baba (who stole from thieves).
Their nihilistic argument is that "theft" is a meaningless term when ownership is illegitimate. They would still consider it immoral to take something they believe legitimately belongs to someone else (such as food in a city-run grocery store) but don't recognize the legitimatcy of most ownership. Would you consider it immoral to steal from Tony Soprano?
They go a little farther and argue that stealing from an illegitimate owner is even a moral good as it is a way to communicate the illegitimate nature of their ownership. Similar to how Robin Hood stole from an illegitimate government(as John was a usurper) or Gandhi did not follow the British law when collecting salt.
I don't really find their argument convincing (for reasons that are probably uncontroversial here) but it's a little different than how many people are interpreting it.
So they would also find it a moral good for someone to steal from them? If so, I applaud their consistency, but any moral good that results strictly in societal bad has to be looked upon with skepticism.
No, not if they believe that their own ownership is legitimate.
Interestingly, Vidocq also appears in 'The Black Tower' by Louis Bayard (the guy who wrote 'Pale Blue Eye' which became a movie starring Christian Bale) which is set during the Bourbon Restoration (After the Fall of Napoleon but before Les Mis) .
Nice one!
OR
There's an asshole who owns the cloud
Running around all corporately
He says stealing is not allowed
So I steal lemons and I'm proud