"They persuaded Scott Weiner but remain furious that they had to work so hard to persuade him."
Because it increasingly seems like a huge chunk of the modern progressive left hates and resents the idea that they might have to persuade people to accept their ideas and get on board with their proposals. Perhaps because it implies that at least some of their ideas are not so self-evidently brilliant and correct that everyone will / should just immediately accept them, meaning that there is in turn a chance that they are actually not On The Right Side Of History (which in itself speaks volumes -- they're less interested in doing the right thing as in making sure that posterity records that they were on the side of the right thing). It's harder to feel morally righteous if you have to debate your ideas, thus risking the discovery that you might actually not be morally righteous, or at least that the issue might be more complicated than you acknowledge.
One could argue that their actual major project over the last decade and change -- more than climate change, more than police abolition, more than racial equality, more than trans rights, more than Palestinian liberation -- has actually been to find ways of ensuring that they can 'win' arguments without actually having to have the argument. Just look at many of their favoured rhetorical devices, many of which are all about shutting people down and instantly dismissing their positions without actually having to engage with them. He's "mansplaining". She's "bothsidesing". You need to "stay in your lane". "It's not my job to educate you". And if that doesn't work, then just hit them with the good ol' ad hominems.
So yeah, not even changing your mind is good enough to satisfy these people. Because in their world having to be persuaded to change your mind in the first place is the ultimate insult.
If these idiots are going to make the Israel/Palestine conflict their Spanish Civil War, I really wish they'd go all the way, fly to Gaza, and join the fighting.
Cute...but we know the real reason. He's very visibly Jewish and San Francisco just isn't the place for that now. He could have been the original ally and those leftists would have picked him out as a "Zionist" by his look.
I'm not the first to point this out, but today's Jew hatred really is a throwback to the Middle Ages. A Jew can "repent," "convert," throw other Jews under the bus to the greatest extent possible, but will never stop being an object of suspicion. These so-called activists/modern-day Inquisitors WILL find, or invent, some last remaining drop of blood to justify your expulsion.
Yeah, the people who chased Scott Wiener out of the pride event remind me of the democratic socialists who have been winning primaries: they are more interested in showing their commitment to The Cause than actually gaining any policy wins in furtherance of The Cause. Darializa Chevalier takes her positions in democratic socialism not as an avenue to win anything for democratic socialism so much as to signal that nobody is more into democratic socialism than she is (libertarians do this as well; if I was to say "taxation is theft" some other libertarian will have to one-up me and say "well, I believe in privatizing the judiciary").
Of course chasing Scott Wiener from a pride event does literally nothing to help The Cause as it relates to Gaza, but it sure does show how committed some people are to The Cause. Subconsciously, those people were thinking "I will prove nobody hates Israel and loves Gaza more than me by kicking a gay man out of a pride event." They have to demonstrate exclusion to prove how committed they are to inclusion and intersectionality.
As you intelligent, sexy, erudite people know, the UAE has been a well documented funder of the RSF militant group and their well documented and very successful efforts to exterminate hundreds of thousands of Black Africans in Sudan these past few years. I get we can hardly stop our lives every case of misfortune on the planet, but you if have enough time to chase after a random dude for only agreeing 99% with you maybe go disrupt a UAE funded New York City FC soccer game or something.
This is the biazarro-world version of calling those who spoke out (or fought) against Hitler and Mussolini before the U. S. entered WWII “premature anti-fascists.”
It is also Michael Kinsley’s remark "Conservatives are always looking for converts, whereas liberals are always looking for heretics” on steroids.
You don't affect change, you effect it! (Unless the change is already happening and you want to change the change, but who needs that kind of accelerationism?)
Is this way of thinking uncommon or unique to Palestine? For example, I often see criticism of older democrats for supporting gay marriage too late. And Biden was criticized for even working with former segregationists, even after they no longer supported segregation.
My guess is that the activists criticizing late converts to their cause (whether it is Palestine, gay marriage or desegregation or whatever) would prefer to be represented by leaders that supported it when it was less politically convenient, as that would be evidence that the leader's values are more aligned with their own. Seems reasonable enough to me.
Except didn’t you notice how they totally love it when right-wingers like Marjorie Taylor Green convert late to their cause? So much so that they defended her when AOC criticized her? The issue here is not the late conversion, it’s Wiener’s Jewish identity. And that’s something that neither Wiener nor the other Jewish indulgers of the left’s demented genocide fetishism haven’t gotten through their social-justice addled brains: they are only there to lend legitimacy to the anti-jewish libels this movement is peddling. Any hint of disloyalty — and there will always eventually be one — and they’re kicked out. This ritual of humiliation that they put Wiener through is not a reaction to anything, it’s the end goal of their bigoted cesspool of a movement.
"They persuaded Scott Weiner but remain furious that they had to work so hard to persuade him."
Because it increasingly seems like a huge chunk of the modern progressive left hates and resents the idea that they might have to persuade people to accept their ideas and get on board with their proposals. Perhaps because it implies that at least some of their ideas are not so self-evidently brilliant and correct that everyone will / should just immediately accept them, meaning that there is in turn a chance that they are actually not On The Right Side Of History (which in itself speaks volumes -- they're less interested in doing the right thing as in making sure that posterity records that they were on the side of the right thing). It's harder to feel morally righteous if you have to debate your ideas, thus risking the discovery that you might actually not be morally righteous, or at least that the issue might be more complicated than you acknowledge.
One could argue that their actual major project over the last decade and change -- more than climate change, more than police abolition, more than racial equality, more than trans rights, more than Palestinian liberation -- has actually been to find ways of ensuring that they can 'win' arguments without actually having to have the argument. Just look at many of their favoured rhetorical devices, many of which are all about shutting people down and instantly dismissing their positions without actually having to engage with them. He's "mansplaining". She's "bothsidesing". You need to "stay in your lane". "It's not my job to educate you". And if that doesn't work, then just hit them with the good ol' ad hominems.
So yeah, not even changing your mind is good enough to satisfy these people. Because in their world having to be persuaded to change your mind in the first place is the ultimate insult.
This:
" ...has actually been to find ways of ensuring that they can 'win' arguments without actually having to have the argument."
I have been noticing this pattern too, but I could never communicate it this clearly and concisely. Thank you.
The word for this brand of persuasion is "coercion."
If these idiots are going to make the Israel/Palestine conflict their Spanish Civil War, I really wish they'd go all the way, fly to Gaza, and join the fighting.
Cute...but we know the real reason. He's very visibly Jewish and San Francisco just isn't the place for that now. He could have been the original ally and those leftists would have picked him out as a "Zionist" by his look.
I'm not the first to point this out, but today's Jew hatred really is a throwback to the Middle Ages. A Jew can "repent," "convert," throw other Jews under the bus to the greatest extent possible, but will never stop being an object of suspicion. These so-called activists/modern-day Inquisitors WILL find, or invent, some last remaining drop of blood to justify your expulsion.
Yeah, the people who chased Scott Wiener out of the pride event remind me of the democratic socialists who have been winning primaries: they are more interested in showing their commitment to The Cause than actually gaining any policy wins in furtherance of The Cause. Darializa Chevalier takes her positions in democratic socialism not as an avenue to win anything for democratic socialism so much as to signal that nobody is more into democratic socialism than she is (libertarians do this as well; if I was to say "taxation is theft" some other libertarian will have to one-up me and say "well, I believe in privatizing the judiciary").
Of course chasing Scott Wiener from a pride event does literally nothing to help The Cause as it relates to Gaza, but it sure does show how committed some people are to The Cause. Subconsciously, those people were thinking "I will prove nobody hates Israel and loves Gaza more than me by kicking a gay man out of a pride event." They have to demonstrate exclusion to prove how committed they are to inclusion and intersectionality.
As you intelligent, sexy, erudite people know, the UAE has been a well documented funder of the RSF militant group and their well documented and very successful efforts to exterminate hundreds of thousands of Black Africans in Sudan these past few years. I get we can hardly stop our lives every case of misfortune on the planet, but you if have enough time to chase after a random dude for only agreeing 99% with you maybe go disrupt a UAE funded New York City FC soccer game or something.
This is the biazarro-world version of calling those who spoke out (or fought) against Hitler and Mussolini before the U. S. entered WWII “premature anti-fascists.”
It is also Michael Kinsley’s remark "Conservatives are always looking for converts, whereas liberals are always looking for heretics” on steroids.
LOL perfection Jeff!
You don't affect change, you effect it! (Unless the change is already happening and you want to change the change, but who needs that kind of accelerationism?)
Should be voted as San Francisco's top official tourism video.
Is this way of thinking uncommon or unique to Palestine? For example, I often see criticism of older democrats for supporting gay marriage too late. And Biden was criticized for even working with former segregationists, even after they no longer supported segregation.
My guess is that the activists criticizing late converts to their cause (whether it is Palestine, gay marriage or desegregation or whatever) would prefer to be represented by leaders that supported it when it was less politically convenient, as that would be evidence that the leader's values are more aligned with their own. Seems reasonable enough to me.
Except didn’t you notice how they totally love it when right-wingers like Marjorie Taylor Green convert late to their cause? So much so that they defended her when AOC criticized her? The issue here is not the late conversion, it’s Wiener’s Jewish identity. And that’s something that neither Wiener nor the other Jewish indulgers of the left’s demented genocide fetishism haven’t gotten through their social-justice addled brains: they are only there to lend legitimacy to the anti-jewish libels this movement is peddling. Any hint of disloyalty — and there will always eventually be one — and they’re kicked out. This ritual of humiliation that they put Wiener through is not a reaction to anything, it’s the end goal of their bigoted cesspool of a movement.
Ah, well. Anyway, what’s for dinner?
I feel so sorry for him…NOT!